Together with members of your group and students in other sections, you’ll be reading Persepolis and Persepolis 2 over the next several weeks. Although you're not required to take notes while you read, it would be wise to keep track of important events and characters for your own clarification. You are, however, expected to participate regularly and thoughtfully in an online discussion of seven essential questions.
Here's how it works:
Divide your book into two roughly equal halves. You need to have read and blogged about your book by the due dates below.
- There are two kinds of posts in this discussion: responses and comments.
- Post at least SIX responses altogether: at least THREE for the 1st half of reading and at least THREE for the 2nd half.
- You must respond to at least five essential questions over the course of your reading.
- You may respond to only two questions more than once.
- One of your six responses can be a "free response" post.
- Post at at least TEN comments altogether: at least FIVE for the 1st half of reading and at least FIVE for the 2nd half.
- Post your first three responses to the book and five comments by TUESDAY, MARCH 15.
- Post your final three responses to the book and five comments by THURSDAY, MARCH 31.
Essential Questions:
- How do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
- Where do the characters find sources of inspiration in their lives?
- How are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
- How is the practice of veiling (or restrictions on dress in general) reflective of cultural attitudes toward gender roles? How do these attitudes affect characters’ lives?
- How does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling (or wearing a head scarf) in other countries?
- How do the characters’ personal stories expand your understanding of the societies in which they live?
- Should there be one standard for gender equality throughout the world? Why or why not?
Assessment: To earn maximum credit, post thoughtful responses that are at least a short paragraph in length—and carefully proofread! Do not misspell characters' or authors’ names! Also, be sure to include specific references to the text (either details or short quotations).
1) How do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
ReplyDeleteMarjane is one of many characters that expresses her individuality throughout the book. Within the first few pages of the book, she already talks about how she is going to be a prophet. She even tells her teacher that she is going to be a prophet. This is the first impression we get of her, and it tells us that she is bold. Also in the beginning of the book, she demands that she goes to one of the protests. We have to remember that she is ten and she is requesting these things. We learn here, that she is courageous and stubborn. In this scene, she begs to go, and is still mad about it later. Already at age ten, she wants to do these adult things and openly expresses them. She also hates wearing the veil, and doesn't wear it as it should be worn. She almost gets into serious trouble because of it, yet she still wears her veil the wrong way afterwards. She goes against the repressive society by wearing "punk" shoes, having rock band posters in her room, and wearing clothes the others didn't, like her jean jacket. She doesn't hide it either, she openly wears these clothes, and her parents are the ones who buy her the posters. She basically does everything she's not supposed to do. Her drive and need to express herself make her a great character, and an especially dangerous one to the society.
I completely agree that Marjane went against the grain purposely. I did notice however that throughout the time period of the book (a few years) Marji acted very innocent as if she was doing nothing wrong. Before she left the house to buy tapes on the black market she was wearing her Nikes, denim jacket and Michael Jackson pin. When she went up to her mother she casually said, "I'm going out." When her mother asks where she just says, "To buy tapes." Nothing more was said about the illegal act she was about to commit and not much other than "cute!" and "Nice!" were said about her outfit. Marjane often acted like what she was doing wasn't wrong and she definitely learned that from her parents always condoning everything that she does.
DeleteIt seems almost as though the harsher the regime gets and the longer she is under the more open Marjane gets about doing "wrong". She gets fed up with the system and tired of pretending to be moral and religious in accordance with the ruling extremists. She stops caring about the consequences because I don't think she fully realizes the extent to which these people are willing to go to make her life miserable.
DeleteI think most people that live under this rule are too afraid to step up and take charge that they are there own person. I like that Marjane has her own life and her careers and not wearing the veil the way she is told to wear it. You have to get in a little trouble to have a good life.
Delete2) Where do the characters find sources of inspiration in their lives?
ReplyDeleteI'm going to choose Marji for this one too, since it seems her inspiration is more broadly laid out. Her first inspiration is her mother. Her mother is strong, and very passionate about her beliefs. Her mother actively goes to protestings against the shah and the corrupt government. Her mother is also not afraid to show feeling, and that's good for Marji. Marji's mother is afraid of the war that is happening throughout Marji's life, yet doesn't hide that from her. She continues to protest even after being yelled at and being in the Iranian newspaper. This is an inspiration to Marji to express herself and her beliefs. She calls out teachers, she goes to protests, and she wears clothes that aren't considered appropriate within the society.
DeleteI definitely agree with you that Marji aspires after her mother. Her mother encourages her to speak up. Marji’s mother is extremely passionate, like you said. This strong character her mother demonstrates defiantly rubs off on Marji. I feel like she is a good role model, though those types of personality traits can be toxic in the repressive society they live in.
I think that Marji's mom knew that her boldness would one day get her in trouble in the society that she lives in and that is why she tried hard to cover it up in herself and in Marjane. When Marjane is putting on nail polish her mother tells her, "You'd be better off without nail polish, you could get arrested." Of course she drops the subject after Marjane disobeys but that was her attempt to make her family a little less bold against the crowd.
Delete2. Where do the characters find sources of inspiration in their lives?
ReplyDeleteIn Persepolis, Marji admires her uncle Anoosh. He was in prison, so when she meets him in the story it is for the very first time. She enjoys asking him many questions about his life - personal and political. His bravery is something she largely admires, and wants to be like him. He tells her about how despite his father being faithful to the Shah, he still strongly held his beliefs. He later went into exile because of this and crossed into the U.S.S.R. where he obtained a doctorate in Marxism-Leninism, something that interests Marji. Anoosh was put in prison for nine years, which Marji finds exciting and describes him to her friends as a hero. Later, Marji shows a greater interest in politics and often expresses her opinion to the adults in her life, despite being so young.
3. How are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
When the American Embassy is bombed, Marji’s initial reaction is not much of anything, as she doesn’t really care. However, when she finds out that no one can travel to the United States, she is upset - she wanted to go and see her friend Kaveh, who moved to the United States a year before. This bombing is the beginning of war. Universities were closed for two years as it was “…better to have no students at all than to educate future imperialists.”. Marji and her family then attend a protest against fundamentalism, however the protest escalated into violence. A month later, war is officially announced as the Arabs have attacked Iran for the second time in 1,400 years. All of this is, of course, very upsetting for everyone. Caution is used at all times and after F-14s fly overhead, the fear of being bombed comes into play, as bomb drills begin being conducted.
4. How is the practice of veiling (or restrictions on dress in general) reflective of cultural attitudes toward gender roles? How do these attitudes affect characters’ lives?
I would say that in general, when women were first told they must wear headscarfs in public, attitudes towards women were not positive. There were protests, however an example of bad attitudes towards women is when Marji’s mother meets up with Marji and her father when her car broke down. Marji’s mother told them that two bearded men - the beards probably being a new government policy like hijabs - insulted her after they noticed that she was in public without a veil on. They went on to tell her that because she wasn’t wearing it, she deserved to be raped and “then thrown in the garbage”. Marji doesn’t exactly enjoy wearing the veil, especially as it is a sudden change, but she doesn’t resist wearing it in public or at school. When at a store, Marji and her mother - along with Mali and her sons - encounter women who are saying things such as “Anyway, as everyone knows: southern women are all whores,” and “…with all those sluts out there, we’ll have to watch our husbands.”. The attitude on veiling is very different overall. The younger generation - Marji included - are more daring with social norms and clothing, however, so comments like these wouldn’t always change their minds or views on veiling.
2. I agree. She loved her Uncle Anoosh even after only knowing him for the shortest amount of time out of her other uncles. She loves that he rebels, and she looks up to him in that sense. It helps mold her into the free-speaking girl she is today. I think he was one of the most influential characters to her and in the shortest amount of time. I find it fascinating.
Delete4. I feel like without the extremist adults, the younger generation would not be affected at all by the veils. They would just wear them in peace, or protest, but it's in a younger child's nature. Marji is never really affected by the veil rule until those women almost arrest her for it. I think that since the children are younger, they got off easier, whereas the older women get more hate and looks of disgust thrown at them. The remarks made to Marji's mother are worse than the interrogation Marji herself receives. However, the veils do not affect practically any of the women's lives positively, as you stated.
Delete1. I absolutely agree that Marjane found interest and inspiration from Uncle Anoosh, but did you notice that after he died Marjane barely spoke about him after he was dead? I wonder if this is a cultural obligation to not speak about the dead or a moral one.
DeleteYes, she did hardly speak to her Uncle after his death. It could very well be a cultural obligation, but I was thinking that Marjane was too upset to speak to him. Because of their close relationship, she probably didn't want to think about the fact that he died and wanted to limit the emotional pain that she was already feeling.
Delete1) How do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
ReplyDeleteThe characters assert individuality in different ways. Marji asserts herself by hanging on to some western culture even when it is being taken away from her. She wears western clothes, idolizes western icons and longs for more influences from the west. Her parents seem to foster this rebellion in her because they too are not happy being confined to the new society. They seem to use Marji as an expressive outlet for their own individualism by funding her purchase of western clothing and memorabilia like Nike shoes jean jackets and band posters.This is a more restrained form of individuality than many of their family-member's. Several of their uncles and neighbors show their individuality by protesting the regime and end up getting punished by the government, imprisoned, tortured and executed. Individuality was condemned in the new Islamic revolution and so you had to hide who you were and find private outlets to express it.
3)How are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to see Marji as a child absorb information from many different facets and stages of the revolution. There were so many ideas floating around Iran at the time and as a child she often parroted contradictory ideals. For instance in the beginning she was deeply religious but as the book grows on she grows to scorn god. At the beginning of the revolution she idolizes such revolutionaries as Castro and Trotsky however as the revolution reveals itself to be oppressive she turns away from it. She often is naively drawn in to things only to find that they truly disgust her.
I think this is true for all children. At a young age, our influences are our parents. We often take on the ideals and beliefs of our parents until we go to school, at which point we begin branching out and asking questions because we are encountering new people and new ideas. I'm sure you see it too, but even in the high school setting, students often speak what they learn at home. I think original thoughts and ideas start to come into fruition around this time and we start questioning what we once believed. College tends to be a real eye-opener for many. I guess my long-winded point is that Marji isn't necessarily unique in the way in which you takes on beliefs and values, but what does make her unique is that she starts questioning them and challenging them at a young age. What would our world be like if we all did this?
DeleteI think our world would be very different than how it is today if everyone did that. People nowadays are following the crowds, and being passive. If people started to speak up and question things that didn’t seem right, than the world would be a more logistically straight place. But, if everyone kept asking questions, and being all talk, nothing would get done. Too many questions, and too little answers. It’s a two step process, asking a question, than acting upon it. An example of this in the book is Marji’s mother. She questioned some of the things that were going on, than acted upon it by protesting.
DeleteWhen children are young they seem to believe everything they see and hear (at least this is true from my experiences). It seems that children haven't developed their own opinions yet, but instead copy cat ideas and beliefs of parents and other role models in their lives. As Marji grows older and older it is neat to see her transform from this little girl with no opinions of her own to someone who forms their own opinions from experiences and personal ideals.
DeleteI think that it's interesting to see how as Marji grows older she doesn't necessarily create a completely separate lifestyle, she picks and chooses many of the different lifestyles she has lived in. This makes her her own person by taking on some ideas from communism, westernness, religion, and her parents own unique blend. All of these experiences have shaped her so while she does question everything she does not come out the same as she was when she went in.
Delete6)How do the characters’ personal stories expand your understanding of the societies in which they live?
ReplyDeleteThe characters stories actually do the opposite. They show me that culture does not really separate much of the base character of people. Many of the attitudes that these people have are the same as people in America have. And while they often have stereotypical and racist views of others, they are all the same. Cultural aspects like veiling, religion, and morals are all ends to the same goal and even though the ruling culture may propose something doesn't mean the sentiment of everyone else in that society agrees. I think this book humanizes the majority in Iran who are not radical extremists and do not have a dying hatred of all things western by showing their conflict against the extremists who do.
I agree that it is very interesting that no matter where humans are from they all seem to have the same basic principles and emotions as anyone else. I also agree that this book does a good job to show that not everyone from Iran hates westerners. In the beginning of the book Marji's dad practically was a westerner, I mean he was driving a Cadillac
DeleteRyan - Yes, the universal emotions are clearly shown throughout the book and I think sometimes we forget that we are all human, despite cultural differences. The portrayal of the West is also eye-opening, too.
DeleteI agree with this as well, seeing how many Iranians actually didn't despise the West was interesting compared to the stigma America has towards Iranians and their culture.
Delete3) How are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
ReplyDeleteOne of the major changes that starts to affect Marji is the veil. She doesn't want to wear it, and neither do most of her friends. She doesn't even understand why she has to wear it for quite some time. When she wears her veil around with her hair showing, she gets rude comments, and yelled at by "The Guardians of the Revolution." They pull down her veil and say, "Lower your scarf, you little whore!" She's also, in my opinion, truly affected by the war and the changes it brings to the country and her life when her neighborhood is bombed. When she finds out that her family is safe, she is filled with relief, but she also faces true grief upon finding the Baba-Levy's house and seeing the turquoise bracelet in the rubble. "No scream in the world could have relieved my suffering and my anger," is what she says about the situation, and I think that's one of the scenes where she shows the most emotion about the war.
No way in heck would I wear anything someone told me to wear. It's controlling and nobody should have the right to put clothes they think you should wear on your body and make it a rule you can't take it off. Especially after being treated like with all the comments I'd burn that darn thing.
DeleteI definitely agree with you Nate. But with such a repressive government you couldn’t burn it out in the open, you would be pulling a match behind bars. Here in America being vocal is almost encouraged and makes your voice heard, but being so vocal would get you a mug shot in Iran. Living in such a repressive government you have to repress your own thoughts and emotions. Take the hits or get hit, unless you hit the government with a couple AK47’s and a lot of backup.
DeleteHow are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
ReplyDeleteMarji is of course affected by the veil she has to wear. This piece of clothing is out of the ordinary for her. "Then came 1980: the year it became obligatory to wear the veil at school." Wearing the veil is like leaving your dignity locked up at home every time you leave. She's quite an out there type of girl and is into religion for a small amount of time. So she's quite the young lady and she's going against the grain by not being a normal girl and playing around. She grew up religious and wanting to be a prophet, unlike other girls. The veil just set her up to come out as her real self.
Personally, if I was forced to wear a piece of cloth over my face whenever I wanted to go out I would be very annoyed. I can't imagine what that would be like. Maybe after time this would become normal, but I feel as if it would always be a hassle.
DeleteI agree with you Ryan, personally I would despise the veil. I think that's where the problems in Iran really start, because we've got the women who are extremely religious and enjoy wearing the veil versus the "westerners" who don't want to wear the veil and are frowned upon. I think that these changes thrown into the society created a snowball effect up until full war broke out.
DeleteHannah - I assume that when you say "...that's where the problems in Iran really start..." you mean societal problems? It's a bit unclear, as Iran has historically - and still is - a country having to deal with outside forces (like the US) wanting their oil, which has lead to many conflicts.
DeleteLexi- Yes, that is what I meant. Of course Iran had societal problems before this, but Marji's story seems to say that after the veil law was in place, everything went downhill. It was right before the war and before lots of protests started breaking out in the country.
DeleteHow do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
ReplyDeleteMarji asserts her individuality within her society by not being an average girl. She does pay for her going against the rules and wanting to be a prophet though, she gets called some pretty vulgar things like a whore and stuff. "I wanted to be an educated, liberated woman. And if the pursuit of knowledge meant getting cancer, so be it. she gets" She is a pretty brave young lady but she will do anything to be her own in her society.
Whenever someone goes out as far away from the norms of society as Marji did and her "prophet-ness" I would say there will always be people who do not agree with her actions. Of course a way to show this disapproval is by isolating them from the rest of society. In this case this was preformed by calling Marji vulgar names.
DeleteDefinitely, Nate. I mean, obviously there are restrictions that Marji follows in her society so she can't get everything she wants, but she definitely pushes the limits. I think she doesn't realize it, but her friends (who had similar mindsets about society) probably looked up to her while growing up.
DeleteHow does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling (or wearing a head scarf) in other countries?
ReplyDeleteI think Americans see the veils on women and either think it is beautiful or very odd and tend to keep these women in there own place. We don't know what it is like to be forced to wear clothing that covers who you are all the time and I think we definitely take things for granted, well some of us do. I don't have a clue how the women wearing them feel, maybe they are used to it and don't care but if any of them are like Marji I don't imagine they appreciate wearing the veils.
You make a good point about how the women must feel if they are like Marji. I think for the rest of the women, it is a way of life. Some women even enjoy wearing a veil on a daily basis. We, Americans, struggle with the concept because we are allowed to wear what we want when we want (in most cases although places such as school have dress codes). We're liberated by our clothing, and perhaps women who wear veils feel liberated by their clothing as well.
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DeletePeople on the outside, I’m appointing to westerners, see the veil as beautiful or odd, like you said. Odd in a sense that it’s foreign to us. In America, we are used to people dressing like harlots, this is not a generalization, but its very common. Clothes are a huge part of our culture. Veils are on the outside of our culture. They are making their way into it, they still aren’t with the rube’s of this country, that will take some time. The veil can represent two things, modesty, or control. Control in a sense that women are forced to wear it. Personally, I think the veil is beautiful, as it’s a sign of modesty and religion to me. But like you said, I would never truly know how the girls who wear the veil would feel, as I’m lucky enough to live in a society where I don't have to find out.
DeleteNate - once again, I agree (I don't think I disagree with much people are saying). How do you think, that if America's "dress code" hadn't changed over the past few centuries, we would view veiling in Iran? Say, if women were pretty much required to wear dresses and petticoats?
DeleteHow do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
ReplyDeleteMarji is different from the other kids. She’s a leader, but in the repressive society she lives in, this quality is being bedimmed. Women aren’t supposed to act like leaders. They’re just supposed to co-exist with men without making a fuss. This repressive society isn’t entirely gender based. Men are also penalized for acting out. The government runs in a coercive way. Follow the hits or get hit. Despite this, Marji still acts out. Perhaps she is naive because of her age. She doesn’t understand the seriousness of what her actions could lead to, if caught. She dresses in western culture clothing as an example. She openly wears these clothes in public. Marji opposes everything deemed mandatory in her society. She also protests and refuses to wear the veil properly. These behaviors show her character to be strong, but at the end of the day the governments will is more powerful.
I don't think that Marji is naive exactly. It certainly seemed like she was when she was young and assumed the best in the worst situations, but as she grew and the war around her grew, she learned. Marji pushed to learn about everything that she could. She wanted to be a profit or a teacher so that she could teach other people the truth–or what she believed to be the truth–about her society. Her father was always a pessimist until he knew from multiple sources what what the truth. I think that Marji saw her father worry constantly and decided to hope for the best. Even when bad situations occurred Marji repressed those events so that she wouldn't be too sad and moved on. Marji is very strong in her own ways.
DeleteColette,
DeleteYou make a good point about repression of both men and women in this society. Even though we're focusing on experiences "behind the veil," men's freedom in Iran is severely limited, too. One example that comes to mind is Marjane's neighbor Tinoosh, who gets beaten so hard for hosting a party that he's unable to walk afterward. His wife got off with a fine & a sharp reprimand.
I don't know if the governments power will is more powerful than the peoples. I think that the people are scared though. I think if they all stuck together and fought the government they could have a chance of winning their freedom. Their would be many lives lost, but as the book says "Freedom has a price."
DeleteThats a really good point Ryan, at some point people have to put their foots down. It would be an extremely hard fight, but in the end, it would be beneficial for the next generation. The government has created so much fear, that it would be hard to convince everyone to conspire.
DeleteI agree Colette, the government power is so strong that it would take ages to get everyone to conspire against the government. Even then, there would still be non-loyal people who would go to the government and rat out any conspirators because they truly believe the government is doing no harm. In every society, you always have people on both sides of a problem.
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ReplyDeleteI don't think that Marji is naive exactly. It certainly seemed like she was when she was young and assumed the best in the worst situations, but as she grew and the war around her grew, she learned. Marji pushed to learn about everything that she could. She wanted to be a profit or a teacher so that she could teach other people the truth–or what she believed to be the truth–about her society. Her father was always a pessimist until he knew from multiple sources what what the truth. I think that Marji saw her father worry constantly and decided to hope for the best. Even when bad situations occurred Marji repressed those events so that she wouldn't be too sad and moved on. Marji is very strong in her own ways.
ReplyDeleteI agree. In the beginning of the book, Marji is just a young girl who doesn't really understand what's going on around her. All the protests, all the arguments, she doesn't really understand or have a say in. Her parents explain these things to her, but until she grows older and the war and turmoil lasts longer, she finally starts to understand the reasoning for everything. I think that Marji also noticed her father worrying all the time, and how her mother's almost lack of worry interfered with him, and she found a nice balance for herself.
DeleteThis was supposed to be a comment on Colette's response above..
DeleteBut I do agree with you that she saw either worry or ease and she disagreed with both reactions to the war so she decided to find a nice spot in the middle called passive aggressiveness. This is also common in teenagers around the world!
Delete** Free-response option: Address another issue/episode/or passage in the book that you find significant.
ReplyDeleteThe turquoise bracelet was extremely significant to Marji. “I saw a turquoise bracelet. It was Neda's. Her aunt had given it to her for her fourteenth birthday. The bracelet was still attached to… I don't know what…” The building close to her home, her next door neighbors house was bombed. Crushing the victims inside, Neda is left lifeless. Marji has heard of death, of executions, including her uncles. She has never stared death directly in the face. When she picked up the turquoise bracelet, it was still attached to Neda’s wrist. Neda was around Marji’s age. Death has no boundaries, age is just a number. Marji escaped death, this is a liberating feeling for her. Perhaps she is fearless now.
I wonder if Marji is fearless now, or scared beyond measure. As you said death has no boundaries. This event might have shown her that she could have been that lifeless body, or could become it in the future.
DeleteThe bracelet scene in the book was what really got me immersed into Marji's story and her feelings and her whole character. Before, I liked her and I could connect with her on some things, but I still didn't know much about her besides her obvious individuality. When she sees the turquoise bracelet you really see who Marji is as a person, and how these things are actually affecting her.
DeleteHannah I agree that the bracelet scene let me feel more connected with Marji and I think that is because before then Marji always distanced herself from the events that went on around her. When they had to hide in the basement from bombs she acted as if it was no big deal. Then during the party they had for the newborn baby Marjane was forced to care for the baby while there was a possible bombing going on. All that Marjane cared about then was the future of the baby and not her own future.
DeleteI'm glad you brought up this episode with the bracelet, Colette. One might also identify it as a turning point, since her fearlessness & rebelliousness that follow are what prompt her folks to send her to boarding school.
DeleteThe bracelet seems to give a physical attachment to the realization that death and destruction is all around her. It's one thing to hear that all of these people have died and lost their homes but it's another thing to see this physical connection to see all that has been destroyed. She sees the bracelet that belongs to her friend and it sticks out to her because it is a very personal object not just rubble.
DeletePeople like Marji that went through the war and violence just fade into the background after they've seen so much of it. Violence and the things we think are disasters are the everyday for other cultures.
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ReplyDelete1. How do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
ReplyDeleteIn a repressive society it is hard to be individually unique, but the characters in the book are able to do so in a few ways. This first example of individuality (believe it or not)is in dress. Even though there are very strict dress regulations people still vary in uniqueness. Everybody has a different style. How the veil is worn changes from woman to woman, as well as facial hair, and the way a shirt is worn changes from man to man. The more hair a woman shows, or the less facial hair a man has adds a little "f u" message to the government. Also, of course personalities show individuality. Even though there is a repressive government Maji still is very interested in learning everything she can about anything. This is very unique when compared to children of a comparable age.
5. How does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling in other countries?
In the U.S. I would have to say our lack of cultural background is what shapes our perception of veils worn by women. Here in the U.S. I would say there is a large lacking of knowledge of foreign customs, and this includes the veil. This lack of knowledge by the general public causes stereotypes to be made. Women wearing veils are sometimes seen as "odd," or "shy," but when in fact neither of these things are necessarily true. Another sad fact is that to many people uneducated on the subject veils are associated with terrorism. This is a very sad and not true at all, but a lack of knowledge leads to a growth in misconceptions.
7. Should there be one standard for gender equality throughout the world?
I think the idea of one standard for gender equality throughout the world is an interesting one. This would certainly make things a lot easier in some situations. It also would probably make a lot of people happy. On the realistic side of things though this is nearly impossible to accomplish. Throughout the world there are many different cultures, each with separate traditions and of course gender roles. Various places around the world have different cultures and traditions. This combined with the fact that changing something that has been in place for a very long time is one of the hardest things to do is the reason that making the world have one set guideline for gender equality is near impossible.
1. I definitely agree with you about how its hard to be individually unique in a repressive society. Most people are extremely fed up with the government. That’s why some may choose to show more hair as an example, like you said. No doubt the people are thinking more than “f u” to the government, thoughts way more smutty. Marji shows her individuality with superficial things, and her personality as you said.
Delete5. The lack of education about foreign cultures in America is vile. We are the most powerful country in the world, yet most of it’s people are as cultured as the wheat that grows out of the ground. There are hundreds of millions of muslims, if all of them were terrorists wouldn’t America be pushing up daisies right now.
1. I think both of your reasons are good, but do you think one is "more" over the other? I think perhaps how you cover your hair (for women) or how you groom your facial hair (for men) is more defiant over personality, because people can easily (or sometimes not so easily) hide their thoughts and opinions with lies.
Delete5. I wouldn't exactly say "our lack of cultural background", but I see where you're coming from if you've ever said "I don't really have a culture" or something along those lines. Being a huge mixing pot of cultures, the US is very different and only has few traditions such as July 4th celebrations or Thanksgiving dinner.
7. It would be so hard to suddenly make a set guideline. However, do you think that we could slowly move towards that? I think we (the US) are a bit right now, and not just in gender equality. And what I personally asked in my response - who would regulate this? But I agree with you.
How do the characters assert their individuality within a repressive society?
ReplyDeleteI think that almost every character that was written about in the book had some way of standing out from the crowd, but the Satrapis were the most individual of them all. Marjane's father was very individualistic in that he was constantly pessimistic in a time where optimism was essential to keep from being constantly worried. Marjane's father decided that he wanted to be constantly worried—probably for a good reason. Most of Marjane's dad's family was killed during war or imprisoned, so I think that he was right to be pessimistic about possible catastrophic events that could hurt his family even more. Then there was Marjane's mother. She was bold and courageous and tried hard to fight the war. She went out with her husband to demonstrations day after day, putting herself in danger for a good cause. While her country's culture was being changed quickly, Marjane's mother refused to completely conform to the new laws and norms. She wouldn't wear the veil correctly unless she was going to be in a situation where she would be around government officials. She put up curtains on her windows so that her nosy neighbors wouldn't catch her family playing cards and having parties with their friends and family. She was only worried about getting caught because she didn't want her family to be torn apart. Marjane on the other hand was not worried one bit about getting in trouble. At a young age she snuck out of the house with her maid and secretly went to a demonstration all day. Then when she was in school she became the class clown because she disagreed with much of what the teachers said but none of her teachers would listen to what she had to say. Marjane wanted to be heard but was constantly told from everyone but her family that her opinions didn't matter. Marjane was bold inside of her house with words, and bold outside of her house with actions. When she left the house wearing a denim jacket, Michael Jackson pin and Nike sneakers to buy illegal tapes she wasn't worried about getting caught until she was actually caught. When Marjane finally thought about the possible consequences for dressing improperly, she came up with a quick lie that got her out of trouble and never said a word about it again. Then when the bomb went off right next to her house she ran to the front of the crowd—pushing her way through—until she got to a government official whom she stood up to and asserted herself so that he would let her through the bomb site to find her parents. Marjane was not afraid of authority at all and possibly thought of herself as above authority. This is how she never felt too repressed in a society where all there was to do was be repressed.
Where do the characters find sources of inspiration in their lives?
ReplyDeleteI believe that Marjane first learned what her source of inspiration would be from her parents. Both of her parents were very passionate about the war because both of their families were involved directly in the politics of the war. Marjane grew up hearing stories about what happened during demonstrations and who burned down what. She learned that to know the truth she had to ask questions, so she did. Marjane wanted to learn as much as possible about the war and I think that is what inspired her throughout her childhood. Learning was essential to Marjane if she was going to be happy in the future. When she was six years old she wanted to be a prophet. She wanted to change the lives of the people around her for the better even before the revolution began. Even at that age she wanted to learn about prophets and God and the worries of her family so that she could fix them. Then when the war started to pick up, Marjane was absolutely fascinated by the politics of the war and the history of her family and how they were all connected with the war. She constantly asked questions to further her knowledge about the past and listened with open ears to her family when they talked about the present problems in their society and government. Marjane wanted all of the learning opportunities that she could get and I think that this made her think less about the casualties of war, and more about how she could fix it.
How are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book Marjane was as bold as possible, even in the face of danger. Other than slowly realizing that she was not invincible to the war, Marjane was not very affected by the changes in society. Her mother on the other hand changed quite tremendously. At the beginning of the book Marjane's mother went out to demonstrations every day and was so bold that a photographer took a picture of her demonstrating and it was featured in many newsletters in Europe and one magazine in Iran. Marjane's mother was scared though. In a country where women are pressured to all be the same, having an identity was dangerous. Marjane's mom has the same conflict about her daughter: She wants her to live her own life, emphasis on the word live. You have to be alive to live the way you want to be. In order to stay alive, Marji's mom was resourceful. She was clever, thinking up the idea to smuggle rock posters for Marjane into Iran in the lining of her dad's coat. Marjane eventually realizes that "For an Iranian mother, my mom was very permissive." Marjane's mother was bold, no doubt, but when it came to the safety of her family she refrained from individuality. When the threat of war that had been looming overhead for years finally turned into the threat of bombs and torture every single day, Marjane's mother got scared. She tried to keep her family together as best as she could, so she condemned her own boldness and kept her opinions to herself. This change in her must have been very difficult, and I have a hard time believing that she could ever go back to being avant garde.
ReplyDeleteShould there be one standard for gender equality throughout the world? Why or why not?
**This response is posted late, because my wifi cut out last night***
Yes, one standard, which is freedom. Realistically this will never happen. People’s personal believes and self pride usually gets in the way of things getting done. In a perfect world women and men would live hand in hand. A place where freedom is not culture, but a right everyone should expect. This world was created with everything we need to thrive, food and materials. But, sadly people can’t prosper as differences cannot be worked out.
I agree with this standard of freedom and equality for women. All women must have the right to be free. I also agree that freedom is not culture. Those who claim that denying freedom is part of culture don't generally check if they have the permission of the subjugated. Of course they subjugate other people specifically women to put themselves on a higher level.
DeleteI think you are correct in the fact that nothing is or ever will be equal between men and women. I think eventually the roles will be closed to balanced this will be a long while and with a lot of good people to take charge and get rid of gender inequality or keep working towards the goal.
DeleteI think that would be very nice if the world all had freedom. Everyone deserves this right, but sadly I don't believe this will ever happen. There will always be some person high up in a government that won't allow his/her people to do what they want.
Delete5) How does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling (or wearing a head scarf) in other countries?
ReplyDeleteIn America, we don't have to wear any restricting clothing (except dress codes in professional places). I think that gives us a bias that veils are evil and horrible. This is not always the case. Marji does not like the veil, however there are plenty of women in Iraq that do wear the veil. America sees the veil as vile, whereas people in Iraq might actually see it as normal, and even nice.
I've never thought that people might actuall like the headscarf. That is very interesting view. People generally feel more comfortable, or like what they are used to. For these people this is the veil so yes, I could see how they would like it. I can also see how others would dislike it though if it is uncomfortable, or makes their life harder.
DeleteI definitely agree with you Hannah. There are two view points on the veil in America, depending on ignorance or receptivity. And in Iran like you said, there are plenty of women who may like the veil, Marji not included. But, it all depends on the person.
Delete6) How do the characters’ personal stories expand your understanding of the societies in which they live?
ReplyDeleteMarji's story lets us understand her society because that is what these books are about. She talks about the current problems in her society, and how they affect her personally. Her story about her parents making her leave for Austria to find a better life makes us truly understand how bad her life is at home in Iraq. Her rebellion against the veil and the punishments she face also are a looking glass into Iraq's society, and how bad they are.
I think the book, at least for me definitely helped me understand just how hard it was for them living in this time of war. I will never understand what its like to live in constant fear of dieing from a bomb, or being taken away by a government official because they didn't like something about you. I could never imagine how that must feel, but this book definitely gave me a little better grasp on the idea.
DeleteYes, I think that reading about what it's like to like during a time of war - and the country it takes place in - is something that we haven't (and hopefully never will) experience, as we are one of the youngest generations right now. Also, thinking about what her life was like at 10 years old versus my life at 10 is a more depressing thought.
DeleteMarji's story is unimaginable. If us kids were told to leave home to find a better life we'd crawl up in a hole and cry. Marji is a trooper. She is the type of people we need and those are the ones that stand up for themselves.
Delete7) Should there be one standard for gender equality throughout the world? Why or why not?
ReplyDeleteI do not believe there should be one standard for gender equality throughout the world. There are too many different cultures, and some people just straight up don't want to conform to the standard. I think that people should just be treated equally, not forced to conform to an equal standard.
I agree with you that there should not be one standard for gender equality. With all the different cultures it would be way to difficult to make everyone go along with this. I also agree that people should be treated equally.
DeleteI agree too; with all of the different cultures and ways of life, one standard is a bit much. It's not like a "one size fits all" type of thing. And of course, everyone should be treated equally.
DeleteI personally believe there should be one standard throughout the world. One standard, that everyone deserves freedom. Freedom shouldn’t be part of a culture, but a right everyone deserves. But, this is just an idea, a dream of some sort. It should be a “one size fits all” One standard shouldn’t be too much. It should be a concept everyone should accept— needing some education. This idea will not be put in place anytime soon, as ego, personal prides and believes get in the way. Change will only be possible by speaking out, time and acknowledgement.
DeleteI agree with the idea that everyone should be treated equally. I don't really think it'll ever happen because someone will always have an opinion. I don't think it's possible to have a perfect society because we all have different thoughts on what a perfect society is.
Delete2. Where do the characters find sources of inspiration in their lives?
ReplyDeleteI think that Marjane finds inspiration throughout the book from her family. When she is doing something she always thinks about what they would think about her actions. When in Austria most of the things she did not because she wanted to, but because she did’t want to let her family down. She would restrain herself from insulting teachers and doing not so smart things (at first at least). She did this because she was scared of letting her family down when they were already going through war. I don’t know if this can be considered inspiration, but I think early on a lot or Majane’s actions were based on trying to not let her family down.
3. How are the characters affected by events/changes in society?
In Marjane’s case She is affected greatly by events and changes in society. The largest one being war. The war changed Marjane drastically from a little girl to a woman. During her childhood she was under the conception that nothing would happen to her, but then when her best friend died she realized the she too could die. I think this event changed her whole outlook on life. The war did not stop affecting her there though. She became depressed by the war as well. When she was in Austria she was constantly afraid for her parents, and sad because she felt like she had no one. Thus leading her to the hands of drugs to try and stop the pain and sadness. I think war affected Marjane more than the changes in society she faced because if there was something she didn't agree with she spoke out against or just plain broke the rules. With the war however, she could not do that, and instead it nearly broke her.
Free Response:
The last three words in this book were “Freedom had a price.” I think this is a very true quote not only in the book, but in real life. Many people have and will die in the world to get or protect their freedom. In this book many people died during wartime trying to get themselves the freedom they wanted. All around the world people are constantly trying to get freedom from oppressive governments, and being killed because of it. I think that this reminds us to really feel lucky for the freedom we have, because some do not have it. I also think it should make us appreciate those who make it so we can have freedom.
DeleteFree response:
Great bringing up the ending, those three words are very significant. The repressive government rules in complete and total tyranny creating fear. Marji’s strong character didn’t blend with the government, making her leave her home country entirely. This fear about our government isn’t the same over in America. Though, for some ignorant rube’s the fear is present, because our President is black. Most people have piss and moan syndrome in America. We are so lucky to be in America, though most people will pick apart anything great in order to feel like the victim. There are problems in America that we need to work out, but after reading this book, it makes you realize how precious freedom is.
I enjoy your free response choice Ryan, and I agree. Without reading these two books, I probably would never have truly understood as much about the war Marji went through. Sure, we have our own problems in America, but in underdeveloped countries, America looks like paradise.
DeleteI think those words really tie up the book well. Freedom is really taken for granted here in the US, especially the once who aren't earning it for us by risking there lives. If we didn't live here we would be in Marji's shoes afraid for our lives, we probably wouldn't even be afraid because that's kinda the norm.
Delete5. How does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling (or wearing a head scarf) in other countries?
ReplyDeleteIn the United States, women’s rights are one of the most “advanced”, if you will, in the world. Women are not required to wear any certain garments - although items such as “short shorts” and tank tops in schools is controversial - or do not need a man to escort them to places. With this way of life, one glance at the Iranian culture may make someone think that the society is extremely repressing - which I’m not trying to deny, as women’s rights are very different. However with veiling we must remember that not every women absolutely hates wearing a headscarf, as it is a symbol of modesty. This is similar to how nuns cover their hair.
6. How do the characters’ personal stories expand your understanding of the societies in which they live?
ReplyDeleteMarjane’s story is definitely an eye-opener. She also happens to have had parents that participated in protests, and an uncle who had done many things, including being arrested and crossing into the USSR. Her attending a French school was something I never would have expected, but then again there is only one French school that I’ve ever heard of in the Portland area. Her views on headscarfs and the actions the government chose to do were interesting, but they were honestly a bit guessable. Nevertheless, “seeing” this different society is very interesting and eye-opening (but also a bit biased, you must remember).
DeleteI agree with you Lexi, it was a big eye opener. Personally, I don’t think this book is biased, as it’s a reflection of most life in Iran. It’s hard to make assumptions as we are sitting on the outside of the conflict. I can see your point though, the book is making us view Iran through Satrapi’s eyes. But, I feel like you should come to conclusions after you yourself have lived through life in Iran. This is because, you can’t declare it biased when there may be truth in the stories.
7. Should there be one standard for gender equality throughout the world? Why or why not?
ReplyDeleteThere are many approaches to take with this question, but I would say no. Yes, all genders should absolutely be treated equally, but one standard throughout the world would be impossible. There are so many cultures and different ways of life that something that applies to one place may not apply to another. It would be very tricky if something like this were to try to be put in place. Besides, who would regulate it? The UN? Governments are not required to listen to the UN.
Personally I would say yes, that there should be one standard for gender equality. I can see why you said no, as it would be immensely problematic, because of different viewpoints and cultures. Your question as to who would regulate it, the people would have to, a moral duty.
DeleteI agree with you Lexi, trying to implement one huge gender standard would be way too problematic and not work. You would not be able to please everyone with it either, there would always be at least one person who would despise the standard. I really like how you ask about who would even regulate the standard. If it was even possible and the UN regulated, the Permanent Members would most likely be put in charge, and that wouldn't be fair to the hundreds of other countries that don't have a permanent seat in the UN.
DeleteHow does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling (or wearing a head scarf) in other countries?
ReplyDeleteThe US being what it is with the fashion and freedom and everybody trying to look either sexy or just make some sort of statement is the most free country out there. Women can do what they want in our society especially in terms of clothing. Nobody is telling them what they should wear and what they shouldn't. So when Americans live like this and look at other countries it's basically torture, because they are forced to wear it.
Should there be one standard for gender equality throughout the world? Why or why not?
I think you'll run into a rebellion if you have one standard for gender equality. Everyone on the face of the earth has something different about them and if you tell them they have to all abide by the same standards there is gonna be some problems. People should just be free and figure out to live without bossing other people around and live there own lives.
How do the characters’ personal stories expand your understanding of the societies in which they live?
Marjane’s story definitely expands our understanding of the society they live in. The fact that she was told to go to Austria to get a better life pretty much explains it all. Iran also always seem like something is going on. If war is not a big thing at the moment it's the protesting for human rights. Their society is just crazy thats all, always something going on within everyones lives.
Where do the characters find sources of inspiration in their lives?
ReplyDeleteAlmost ironically Marji's parents seem to find as much inspiration from her as she does from them. They are extremely proud of how she has grown into a strong woman. This gives them the strength they need to persevere in the hostile environment of Iran. Marji finds strength and inspiration from her parents. She figures if they can survive in the harsh society of Iran she can survive in Austria. So they inspire each other to push through their adversity and support each other however they can through visiting and talking with each other.
How is the practice of veiling (or restrictions on dress in general) reflective of cultural attitudes toward gender roles? How do these attitudes affect characters’ lives?
Veiling shows a sort of distain that people in control (generally males) have towards society. While some women may may choose to veil personally. It is inherently sexist towards males to believe that we are so weak that showing a bit of skin will provoke us into a sexually fueled. What perverts they must be to assume that all males must be so sexually fueled that women should have to cover up to protect themselves. This practice is inherently wrong towards women but also looks down upon the strength willpower and general moral decency of men. This sets back the women by not being able to express themselves because the government is so scared about a little skin to the point where Marji is not allowed to look at a male model for her art studies.
How does our cultural background shape our perception of women and the practice of veiling (or wearing a head scarf) in other countries?
We as westerners have a very lofty view and seem to look down upon veiling as backward and barbaric. European historical fashion has accented the curves of a woman's body exposed cleavage and so on. So we have been desensitize to provocative dress. I once saw a political cartoon of two women, one american in a bikini and one middle eastern wearing a veil. The american was thinking "Wow she must be so oppressed that she has to walk around covered from head to toe." and the middle eastern was thinking "Wow she must be so oppressed that she has to walk around with barely nothing on." This shows how coming from different backgrounds you can have two extremely different views on something like veiling depending on how you look at it. It could be protecting the decency of women, or infringing upon their rights.